Thanks Susan for good comments last week.
This week Tony elaborated on the time Noah and his family were in the ark, totally dependent upon God, seeing His wrath and His grace played out simultaneously. Awesome experience and the saving water, dying to unrighteousness, motifs that continue to play out throughout the Bible are established. My math comes up to 316 days on board the ark.
Tony pointed out how the seed survived. Re-creation, new world, new growth, purity but soon Ham/Noah incident. Disgraced. Quite a bit more to this story that I want to research sometime, I've heard too many conflicting statements but all come to same conclusion ... sin continues in new creation.
Babel narrative.... tower = power. Same sin as Eve, wanted to make name for self, achieve power of God, stepping behind appointed position. Variation on a theme, aka same second second verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse....
Judgment is also a promise. "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." (Gen 11:6-7) Unlimited potential when working in concert and understanding each other. Goal should be spreading truth, love and grace of God, doing His will - not trying to be equal or superior to Him. Problem with many self actualization/realization/empowerment philosophies. In serving God we have unlimited power, in trying to lift ourselves up to His level we end up with nothing. Another recurring theme in the overall story.
In final few minutes Tony started into the story of Abraham. Start reading Genesis 12-14 for next week. Keep the good comments flowing, and James, we were blessed to have you back in class this week after your recent heart surgery.
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Sitting in the temperature controlled comfort of an apartment with locks, indoor plumming, electricity, and refridgeration (not to mention canned food, sealed bags of chips, and packaged fiber bars); With a microwave, computer, television, book collection, digital camera, and a vehicle outside that I don't have to clean up after, but still have to feed now and again (with little effort); I live in a world that is nothing like Noah or the story of Babel... or is it?
ReplyDeleteI live in a world that predominately speaks English, has cities that span miles, and has landed on the moon and circles the earth with satalites (not to mention all those air buses).
There is something to learn from the Story of Babel... I don't think it has to do with a tower. The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God. If we strive to make a name for ourselves, as nations do, then the manifestation of God will be seen in other places where they seek his glory.
Good point on the languages. We may all speak English, but that doesn't mean we all speak the words of God. If we, through the spirit, can encourage one another and build one another up in the power of God... that's the Kingdom... reordering the creation to submit to God. Yet the mind set on the flesh cannot sumbit, it is hostile.
We are not different at all from the people in Genesis. Life seems different, but technology simply replaces what is already there. Nothing we have is neccessary, it is convenient. When we sumbit to God, so that his name is glorified, setting our minds on the spirit, then we live as intended.
I hope everyone is blessed this week. Thanks for the blog. I hope we are all encouraged. :)
Nice Chad... we are not differeant at all from the people of in Genesis. "We" collectively kill, destroy, seek to elevate ourselves to God's level - controlling weather, elements, food, night and day, illness and infirmity, creating and extinguishing life as conveniently as possible - self actualization to the point of idolatry at every opportunity.
ReplyDeleteAs we look at Abram over the next few weeks, hopefully we can see ways that translate into today for how to develop from the ordinary into the called out man of God.
Applicability of OT is easy to overlook, this helps bring some of the truth home. It is difficult, if not impossible, for a modern American family to live in faith dependent upon God for their future. So many programs, so many opportunities to provide for tomorrow - true dependency is almost impossible to visualize.
I was told there would be no math!! :)
ReplyDeleteI don't know what it is about humans, but we LOVE extremes. We can't do anything without going overboard! And so it (apparently!) has ever been. Did Noah, after seeing God's mercy & grace to his family, decide to "sin that grace may abound?" Or did he just think, "Hey, a little wine is good. A lot of wine would be great!"
I've often wondered, ever since I first heard the story in Sunday school, why no one ever tried building another tower. Part of me is curious as to what would happen. (Of course, if we built in in North America, we'd have to have an argument with Canada about which country it would be in... and then every state would want it because it would create jobs... Nah, never mind.)
God knew that people working together could do anything they wanted to do. And we know it, too; we've seen it in times of crisis. I wonder if it is a commentary on our very individualistic society that we don't accomplish much by all working together for the simple fact that we don't all work together?
The president said in the SOTU address that he refuses to accept 2nd place for the U.S. And I think most of us feel that way. Have we become the tower people? I don't accept the idea that our national troubles are judgement from God for (fill in the blank with societal ill of your choice), but I do wonder if, in our search to be great, we've triggered an internal "humanness" switch to make us divided. Did that come with the Fall? Or did God install it in us after the Tower? Or is it a collective result of wanting to be like the nations?
Part of me wants to think, "There's nothing wrong with wanting your nation to be great." Then the sensible part of me kicks in and says, "Yes, there is, if it comes at the cost of removing God from first place in your life." I don't believe that at any level we can want advancement for an earthly nation and still want God to be #1. I do believe that God's kingdom will grow as a result of his people being faithful & putting him first in all things. And when that happens, the affairs of this earth will matter so little to us: No matter how things go for our country, we will rest assured that our citizenship is in heaven. We will stop trying to build an earthly tower & find that we've already built a heavenly one, to the glory of God.
Ramble much? :) I'm looking forward to hearing more about God's friend Abraham.
Arthur:
ReplyDeleteThe ability to live where there is relative security and available food to the point of waste and the availability of clothes and shelter for nearly everyone is a blessing and is because we are being faithful to God. Having a "mine is bigger than yours" national attitude that makes us produce in order to be better than "them" or to somehow take pride in the things we produce (when it goes beyond faithful obedience to God), we go beyond the blessing and into the selfish ambition of our pride. It is hard to remember God when we have everything we need. But, coming back to faith is how to bless all people. It is all an attitude.
Susan:
It is even in our language. We have to talk about "our country" as a place of citizenship, instead of "this country" and a place of residence. Because we live in a country that expects it's citizens to take ownership and vote and make a difference, we feel a sense of belonging and a way to contribute to our the governance of our own lives here.
If we were citizens of the UK, we would have an attitude that we were "Brittish" and claim that was "our country". If our citizenship is in heaven, then we have a country. So, this country is one where we live as aliens and strangers. We bless and work as respresentatives of our country. How is that supposed to look?
Chadwick:
Hey, bud, you and I think alike. :)
Shane Claiborn's book, Jesus For President, had an awful lot to say about nationalism and citizenship in this current world... Susan, I have to laugh at any comment about Noah that starts off talking about going overboard... I don't know enough about this episode in Noah's life. The author leaves out details because they are not essential to the story. My reading is that the son is disgraced and punished, not Noah. Noah's drunkeness and being naked is less an issue than Ham's attitude/actions.
ReplyDeleteI am going to go back to the first class session tonight, because I have been speaking with some guys that have a very different attitude/interpretation of the Genesis story.
Remember our question in class about why God set the tree in the garden in the first place if He really didn't want man to eat from it?
Well, I didn't realize this until this last week, but the LDS group holds that question as a very important tenet of their faith. They teach that God really did intend for man to eat the fruit in order that He could accomplish His ultimate plan.
We read over the statement in Genesis 3:5, "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
To me, this obviously means man knew God created an environment for man that was ‘very good,’ and everything man knew was good, and when they disobeyed God, they learned what was evil. They learned of death, disobedience and punishment and most importantly, being cast from the presence of God. The Mormon take on this passage is that man knew neither good, nor bad. By taking the fruit, they were able to experience good – which was God’s ultimate plan, but as a consequence also had to experience evil. Prior to knowing good and evil, man could not know sex or have children, and since their primary doctrine involves creating a body for each spirit, this fall from innocence was a prerequisite for God’s ultimate plan according to their teachings.
As always, a thorough and complete reading of the scriptures is important for knowing the truth. But even passages that we read and think we understand can be very important in determining our ultimate understanding of our purpose in life.
I want to return to God’s presence. I want to speak with God like Adam, Noah and Abram. I am not perfect, not even close, but I have received God’s grace. When God says don’t, he means don’t. He does not mean don’t but if you do – you’ll come off ahead because you will experience my grace, or don’t because I practice child psychology and know that if I tell you don’t you will – and if you disobey me then you are really doing what I intended for you to do (as opposed to what I told you to do)…. Got that?
Wow …. God, help us all to hear your word, obey your word, spread your word.