Jim’s sermon utilized questions and answers. Made me think we should revisit the five questions Tony asked the class to think about in this study (hopefully I copied down with reasonable accuracy).
- What does it mean to believe the Old Testament is the word of God?
- What did the book of Genesis have to the audience then, and what (if any) claim does it make to its readers today?
- Was the Old Testament written only for the Old Testament people of
- Was the Old Testament written to confront its readers now as then with the imperative to live a life of faith exemplified by Abraham’s walk with God in the Old Testament?
- How can anyone today read and understand its [Genesis and/or the Old Testament] meaning for his or her life?
Tony emphasized Genesis as a resource or example of the importance of living by faith as well as being the story or origins. He also stated that time was irrelevant. He asked us to consider who creation was for, who benefited, who controlled (had dominion), and who was serving whom in the initial story of creation.
He also asked us to read the first seven chapters for next week’s class. I would like to hear some feedback from the class and carry on a simple blog of comments to enhance this study.
Question 1 - How did Creation benefit God? It is intriguing to consider, and relatively easy to deduce that creation might have been for man’s benefit. What God said was good was that which could be used by man, and man and the completion of creation was very god.
ReplyDeleteI had always considered creation to have just been a factual instance. I had never questioned its purpose or plan specifically. I had not considered creation from the standpoint of intended to benefit man, not intended to punish man, not intended to glorify God, not intended to test God’s power, not a result of conflict with the fallen angels, not necessarily even premeditated. But all the evidence seems to point at intentionality. God planned every last detail in advance. So what is the purpose of creation? Who does it benefit directly?
Thanks Eddie for posting audio links to the text!
ReplyDeleteWhat does it mean to believe the Old Testament is the word of God?
ReplyDeleteSome people believe in a literal 7 x 24 hr day creation. I believe in a creation that is not quite as restrictive. Many sections of the Bible are poetic, simplified, generalized, or otherwise obvious from the context that they are not intended to be absolutely literal in interpretation (Who really wants a nose like the tower of Lebanon?)
McLaren characterizes the conflict between Cain and Able as being waged between two clans, one agrarian the other hunter. Makes some sense when compared with references to 'Israel' sometimes being person, other times being tribe and still others being geographic or political area.
I have faith that the OT is the absolute word of God. But one of the reasons we are directing this study with an emphasis on the narrative form is that a very small portion of this book is dedicated to one of the biggest single events ever! The purpose of Genesis 1 is summed up in verse 1.
As Tony pointed out - not taking something else and resolving into creation, not using strife or a battle to result in creation, not proving who was stronger - simple starting with only God... In the beginning, God created...
Sounds very insightful, Art. as I read the creation account I find that the author begins with a world that is chaotic... dark and formless. Enter YHWH. He creates harmony and peace out of the chaos. Every stage is set, every thing has a place on the stage (birds of the air, fish of the sea). Then he creates a crowning achievement: man. More importantly a creation "in our image." Not a literal image but that this man will be expected to maintain peace and harmony.
ReplyDeleteIs this how the original reader might have interpreted chapter one?
When I dwell on the Garden story I always find myself pondering God's point of view. God saw everything and it was good. And it was. . . until man believed a lie and invited evil into creation. What did God feel when man whom he loved and all He created for him were ruined? How does a mortal parent feel when their child whom they love and give everything to, turns to the dark and destroys the life that could have been filled with blessings. Just how much anguish can a heart stand?
ReplyDeletejeff
Jef touched on a point that has always been in the back of my mind, he said "until man believed a lie and invited evil into creation."
ReplyDeleteIf man (woman) believed a lie - or was presented with a lie, or was tempted in any way - and we term that evil - wasn't evil already in creation?
In real life examples we sometimes discuss thoughts as separate from actions: having a general fantasy is different from actually embarking upon a sexual affair. But when we look at Jesus' words where killing and hating were congruent, then 'evil' really already existed in creation.
I want to hear what class members think about the five questions - what did the book of Genesis have to say to the people 5000 years ago, 2000 years ago and 2 minutes ago? Was it written specifically for the OT people of Israel, all Jews and Christians, or everybody of every time? Why?
Matt mentioned the "in our image" which we didn't get to discuss in class.
ReplyDeleteVery significant statement - any thoughts?
Even though I'm not in class at the moment, I'll take a stab at it-- I was reading Genesis tonight, as it happens, so I'm kind of refreshed on it!
ReplyDelete1. Ever since meeting Jesse Long, I've often thought of how absurd it is that Christians tend to concentrate on the NT almost exclusively, despite the rather larger portion of the Bible that the OT has! I think it was when Bible bowl studied Life of Moses that I heard a coach from another congregation talking about her husband (a minister of some sort) being really upset at how much time the kids were spending on the OT when they should be in the NT-- as if the OT isn't important. Oops!
If we believe the NT is the word of God, then we must believe the same of the OT-- if the NT writers based their faith in the OT, how can we not do the same?
For all that we are not bound by the old law, I believe we are still obligated to know it, even if only to know what it is Christ has set us free from.
I do think a tendency exists to believe that the OT God is mean and the NT God is benevolent. Obviously, He is the same God and both benevolence and judgement can be seen in either Testament. The 21st century view of the OT is to be horrified at the war, bloodshed, animal sacrifices, and seemingly unreasonable rules (I hate the law involving the jealous man & his wife having to drink the water with dirt & ink in it!). Okay, now I'm kind of launching into question #2...
2. (This is going to be a lot of typing...) The original audience would have had no reason to be horrified as we (I) can be, since it was the world they lived in. Moreover, in the world of oral tradition, they were steeped in this story from birth. The original readers would read & nod in the same way that we nod at stories of the birth of our own nation-- no surprises there, heard it all before.
ReplyDeleteI love the scene in chapter 15 when God swears to give Abram descendants and land, and I would imagine that the Israelite could point to this and say, "That is the moment! That is who I am! That is who we are!" The story, while familiar, is one that could give pride and awe and reverence to the descendant of Abraham who could say, "I am one of God's chosen people."
To the modern reader... we have this window torn in history, as it were, that we can peek through and see someone else's story. But it's a story that, eventually, we are a part of as well-- a story that culminates in Christ and his opening the promise to all. It's a pre-qual to our story, if we started in the NT; it sets the stage for what is to come, and gives us a glimpse of what the Lord will do for us.
3. No.
ReplyDelete4. Yes.
5. Wow. I don't think I will force a direct application of Genesis onto Susan Wilcox. Do I believe it is literally true? Yes. Do I believe it is important enough to study & learn? Yes. Do I believe I should throw my brother in a well? Sometimes. Wait, wait, I mean no.
I think this is answered, to some extent, by the wording of question 4; there are principles of a godly life to be seen in the example of Abraham, or Noah, or Joseph. But any study to get meaning for my own life leaves a wide range of interpretation based on life experience, circumstances, mood... it's kind of scary to answer this kind of question, and remarkably easy to turn to the postmodern "What is right for me may not be right for you". I think it is true that "What I see may not be what you see." Perhaps one person will be struck by Abram's faith to leave home & go... somewhere. Another will see Joseph's refusal to give in to Potiphar's wife, or his later good stewardship of the grain of Egypt. Or Jacob's poor choices, and how he put his own life in jeopardy and caused strife in his family. There is a lot to be gleaned and a lot to be learned, and it depends on what receptive temperature my brain is at on any given day whether or not I'll get it!
So those are quick, and admittedly somewhat goofy, answers to the questions.
And finally, "In Our image..." I think I was around 15 when I first registered that statement while reading, and I remember having to go back & read it again. There is the obvious connection to John 1, which is remarkably cool (and another reason to study the OT carefully! Prehistorical "Easter eggs", if you will!), it is a serious thing to bear the Lord's image. That give some pause to wonder what I'm doing with said image, exactly? It's fun to see kids with their parents & note how much the kids are like the parents. It's less fun to see myself & note that there should be more of God's image showing in me. And yet, he has given us that honour-- that we bear his image, whether we like it or not, and as Christians, we have voluntarily chosen to bear his name as well. And that is a serious responsibility that should send me to my knees much more often than it does.
Anyway! Enough rambling from Su. I hope this is the sort of discussion you were looking for. :)
Thanks Susan! Great comments. One of the purposes of this forum is to keep those who are teaching or working in another capacity connected with the class discussion.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we can overstate the importance of being created in God's image and choosing to bear His name to the world, "that is a serious responsibility that should send me to my knees much more often than it does." Well stated!